(This document contains both parts of the interview - ed.) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Thabet Birro To: Borre Ludvigsen Subject: Re: Interview Salam Borre. Below is the first part. (Part I of II) The following are excerpts from an interview with the Syrian State Minister for External Affairs, Mr. Naser Qaddour. The interview was conducted by me in the Arabic language and then translated also by me. While I tried my atmost to reserve the original gist and terms, translation may have caused some unintentional but minimal alteration. Thabet Birro ================================================================== January 6th., 1996 - The Syrian State Ministry for External Affairs Damascus - SYRIA Mr. Minister, first I would like to start by saying that we, as Syrians abroad, follow with great interest the recent development in the region and are proud of our country and its leadership. The Syrian stance on the peace negotations is a cause for the Arab nation in general and the Syrian nation in particular to be very proud. Syrians and Lebanese aborad have found in cyberspace a new means to communicate and discuss matters relating to their countries. I have here with me a compiled list of questions by Syrian and Lebanese citizens who wish to communicate to the Syrian government some of their concerns and questions. A> "It is always great to see that our sons abroad carry warm regards for their countries and their causes. Let me just say that you can ask any question and in any format you wish. Syria has alwasy paid a lot of attentions to Syrians abroad and we will be more than happy to hear their concerns and the concerns of all the Arab brothers." Q> I will start by posing the questions relating to the Syrian-Lebanese relations. What is the timetable for the withdrawal of all Syrian forces from Lebanon? A> "Syrian forces entered Lebanon based on a formal request by the legitimate Lebanese government represented by the president, the prime minister, and the parliament. It only makes sense that the Syrian forces will withdraw when a formal request is made to them by the legitimate Lebanese government as well. Syria entered then as a part of multi-Arab forces. Soon it proved to be too much for the rest of the Arab countries and they withdrew one after the other and Syria took the entire load on its shoulders." Q> As a part of the Taef agreement, Syrian forces were to be withdrawn a few years back. Why did not Syria follow through? A> "Once again, the Lebanese legitimate government has asked Syria to extend the presence of its forces to maintain the peace and to ensure security." Q> Do you find the Syrian presence in Lebanon necessary for Lebanon? A> "The Syrian presence in Lebanon is necessary for the security of Lebanon and therefore, for the security of Syria. The securities of both countries are interwoven." Q> What is the reason, in your opinion Mr. Minster, that there are no mutual embassies between the two countries, Syria and Lebanon? A> "Syria and Lebanon historically share strong friendships and brotherhood. They have never needed embassies and they shall never will. There is simply no need for them. Lebanese are free and welcome to enter Syria anytime they wish. The absnece of embassies is a sign of strong relations between the two peoples who are in reality, one people." Q> What is the Syrian stance regarding the Lebanese-Israeli struggle? A> "Let me make something clear, Syria will NOT sign any peace agreement with Israel if Israel doesn't withdraw its forces from occupied south Lebanon. A unified Arabic stance has always been our policy in dealing with Israel, but unfortunately we all saw the separate deals Arafat and Hussain struck with Israel. However, there are different UN resolutions pertaining to both cases. In the case of occupied Syrian land they are 242 and 338. And in case of occupied south Lebanon, it is 425. Also let me take this opportunity and say that Syria fully supports the right of the Lebanese resistance in south Lebanon to bear arms to defend their occupied land against the occupying forces of Israel." Q> At the end, Mr. Minister, I am going to ask you to forward a few words about the Syrian-Lebanese relations. A>"I can sense from the line of questions you have asked me, a misguided view of what the Syrian role is. Eversince the first letters asking for Syrian intervention swamped our ministries from Lebanese citizens, especially from the Zahle area, we have committed ourselves to maintain the integrity of Lebanon. And we have lost several historical allies in the interest of maintaing this integrity. The Syrian army was not founded to police any state, nor was it founded to man checkpoints. Our presenece in Lebanon costs us millions of dollars and we will be more than happy for the Syrian army to withdraw from Lebanon as soon as the Lebanese government asks us to." The Minister continued: "The Syrian intervention was necessary to protect the area from Zionist attempts to divide Lebanon based on sectarian lines and create mini entities based on religion to serve many purposes, one of which was to divert attentions away from itself being the only entity which was formed based on religion [in the region]. He further continued: "It is rather disappointing to see this much concern about the Syrian presence but not much mention of the Israeli occupation. We further refuse any attempt to equate or tie the Israeli occupation with the Syrian presence in Lebanon. Israel has always attempted to create this tie, and any attempt to tie the two serves no one but Israel. Syria has supported Lebanon as a sovereign country and even gave up four provinces to Lebanon upon its formation in the UN. It is also disappointing to ignore the rest of the Taef agreement. Based on al-Taef agreement Syria and Lebanon has formed "al majles al a3la al Souri al-lubnani" to support and emphasize the brotherly relations of both countries. Mr. Nasri al-Khouri, a Lebanese, was appointed a head of this console. The relations between the two are that of special nature and will continue to be so." End of part one of the interview. (C)opyright, Thabet Birro 1996. This interview, or parts of it, may not be re-printed or re-published without my prior permission. (Part II of II) The following are excerpts from an interview with the Syrian State Minister for External Affairs, Mr. Naser Qaddour. The interview was conducted by me in the Arabic language and then translated also by me. While I tried my atmost to reserve the original gist and terms, translation may have caused some unintentional but minimal alteration. Thabet Birro ================================================================== January 6th., 1996 - The Syrian State Ministry for External Affairs Damascus - SYRIA And now Mr. Minister, I would like to change to the topic of the peace talks. The questions I have about this topic can really be summed up as follows: The Syrian conduct in the peace talks has gained the respect of not only the Arabs, but also the entire world. But what is the Syrian stance on the Israeli insistence on full normalized relations to include economic and commerical relations? Please sum up for us if you will, the Syrian approach to peace. Minister Qaddour replies: "First, let me answer a potential question on the topic of peace since we have just talked about Lebanon. Some might wonder of why the Lebanese have not fully engaged with peace negotiations and does Syria have anything to do with this? The answer is very simple. The Lebanese-Israeli conflict is the simplest one in the region. UN resolution 425 is very clear and calls on the immediate Israeli withdrawl from south Lebanon. Even Israeli authorities have expressed on many occasions their willingness to withdraw from south Lebanon as a part of a comprehensive peace settlement in the region. The Syrian-Israeli conflict on the other hand is a much more complex one and thus the need for the earlier negotiations." Minister Qaddour further elaborates: "War in itself is not a goal, but rather a means. It is a means to trespass and occupy, or a means to defend and try to get back what was robbed from you. The latter is the way Syria views its conflict with Israel. So once we get back what is fully ours, there won't be any justification for continued hostilities with Israel. We do not seek hostilities and never have. Eversince 1973, we have been seeking a just and a comprehensive peace in the region. Just and comprehensive peace is the only peace that can last. Any imposed peace that may favor one side over the other is doomed to failure as it would get rejected by the people eventually, even if it was imposed for a short term, and the vicious cycle of violance and war would continue. "The peace that was signed by king Hussain is a peace between him personally and the Israeli leaders. Most parties (if not all) in Jordan reject the full normalization with Israel. Arafat's deal with Israel is rather humiliating and unfair to the Palestinian people. That's not how we view peace. We have called for peace according to UN resolutions 242 and 338 for over 22 years now. We still have not changed the shape or content of what we view as just and comprehensive peace. As our president has said on many occasions, the peace we seek is the peace of the braves and the dignified. We seek a peace that guarantees us our rights and preserves out dignity." The Minister further explains: "The people factor is what determines the degree and nature of normalization between any two countries. All what governments can do is to remove the causes of war and agree on a peace formula. But governments cannot force their citizens to accept a pre-set formula for normalization. For instance, we cannot force Syrian citizens to buy Israeli goods, or force them to welcome an Israeli tourist. ONLY the Israeli behavior can determine to what degree they can be accepted by the Arabs. I singled out the Israeli side here and did not say vice versa becuase the indications we have seen so far in countries which have signed peace agreements so far are not encouraging. Israeli tourists bring their own food, and even drinks and do not buy anything when visiting Jordan, and they head back to Israel at the end of the day. Also, for 15 years of peace with Egypt, Egyptians were not encouraged at all with what they have seen and only 700 trips were made from Egypt to Israel, most of which are Egyptian officials with repeated trips." The Minister concludes: "In our view, if Israel continues with its Zionist dreams, it would be very hard to normalize relations and gain the trust of the Arab people. Our nation is a proud nation and it will reject any formula which may not be in line with the good of our motherland. Israel's excuses for keeping the Golan due to its strategic value are totally unaccpetable. 98% of the reports filed with the UN recorded Israeli atrocities against the Golan when it was under Syrian control." "We have tried very hard to keep a harmony among the Arab sides in the negotiations. We insisted from the beginning that peace will not be possible unless Israel withdraw from ALL occupied Arab lands, according to the relevant UN resolutions. We all know how Arafat rushed by himself, only to be followed by Hussain. Now there are only Syria and Lebanon left, and we shall maintain our stance that unless Israel withdraw from the Golan and south Lebanon, peace will not be possible. And Syria will not sign a peace treaty with Israel unless it withdraws from both the Golan AND south Lebanon." End of interview. (C)opyright, Thabet Birro, 1996. This interview, or parts of it, may not be re-printed or re-published without my prior permission.